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Army Corps to halt the use of streamlined mining permits
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Terrific news! The West Virginia Gazette reports that Army Corps of Engineers has decided to halt the use of the Nationwide Permit 21 for surface coal mines. This permitting process has been used extensively in Appalachia to allow for the creation of new mountaintop removal sites with little environmental oversight. Here is how our allies at the Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition describes the NWP 21:
Before a company can start removing a mountain and dumping it into nearby valleys, there is supposed to be a rigorous permitting process to ensure that they will use good science, operate within the law and not harm nearby communities. Unfortunately, about one-third of mountaintop removal coal mining projects are approved under “nationwide permits.” These permits are designed for projects with “minimal impact” –but burying miles of streams under millions of tons of rubble is hardly “minimal impact.” During the Bush Administration, the Army Corps regularly granted nationwide permits for valley fills, even after federal judges found that the practice was illegal.
Ending Nationwide Permits will allow citizens more voice on mountaintop removal permits in their community–and it will require more scrutiny from government agencies to make sure permits are following the law and using good science. It will slow down mountaintop removal — but it won’t stop it.
A valley fill at the head of Montgomery Creek in Perry County
Readers of this blog may remember last October's public hearing at the Pikeville Expo Center on this issue. This is a victory that can in large part be credited to our brave members and allies in other states who stood up at that meeting to speak out against the NWP21 and to all of those who submitted written comments to the Army Corps.
Calm down
Posted by
Teri
at
June-18-2010 01:44 PM
This doesn't mean that no one can get a permit, it only means that they have to go through the individual permit process, like they should have been doing all along.
And the reason this only applies to Appalachia is that valley fills typically only happen with Appalachian surface mining.
Maybe you should read a little more carefully next time and not jump to conclusions that aren't supported by the information in front of you.
Doesn't the water we drink deserve a little consideration?
And the reason this only applies to Appalachia is that valley fills typically only happen with Appalachian surface mining.
Maybe you should read a little more carefully next time and not jump to conclusions that aren't supported by the information in front of you.
Doesn't the water we drink deserve a little consideration?
do you know
Posted by
F
at
June-18-2010 04:36 PM
do you know how long it takes to get a permit under the NWP 21 thing right now.the company i work for has been trying 2 years and was told it might be ready next year so dont tell me to calm down.we have permits for another 2 years so we might get this one or we might not.i like to look into the furture a little more than that.now under this new thing it supposed to take longer to get one.i agrre we need to take care of our land water and air but we also need working people also.if no one is working what is it going to be like.i know we will have jobs in other sources of renewable energy but who want to retrain a 56 old person when he is looking at retirement before long and they wont get their moneys worth of work out of him that they paid to retrain him so dont tell me to calm down you havnt saw nothing yet
important protection
Posted by
Teri
at
June-21-2010 12:15 PM
Your last line sounded like a threat to me. But I will just take it as the doomsday rhetoric that the industry always cries, when they have to follow the law.
Yes it takes time to get a 404 permit that is because the 404 program is designed to protect the waterways and mining tends to cause a lot of damage even if it is practiced in the most responsible way. The industry acts like the 404 program is just a nuisance but it is the law and it is just as important as money.
By mining, your taking away resources that belong to everybody.
Those headwater streams that get buried in the mining process are an important part of the hydrologic system that supplies much of Kentucky's drinking water.
The 404 just tries to make sure we lose as little as possible.
In all honesty the corps and the industry lost the nwp program because they were doing a lousy job it was a little more than a paper shuffling exercise.
Yes it takes time to get a 404 permit that is because the 404 program is designed to protect the waterways and mining tends to cause a lot of damage even if it is practiced in the most responsible way. The industry acts like the 404 program is just a nuisance but it is the law and it is just as important as money.
By mining, your taking away resources that belong to everybody.
Those headwater streams that get buried in the mining process are an important part of the hydrologic system that supplies much of Kentucky's drinking water.
The 404 just tries to make sure we lose as little as possible.
In all honesty the corps and the industry lost the nwp program because they were doing a lousy job it was a little more than a paper shuffling exercise.
not a threat
Posted by
F
at
June-22-2010 10:54 AM
its not a threat in the way you are thinking.the coalminers have the right to protest just the same as the rest of the world.some have already talked about it.just because we a coalminers dont mean we have no rights like some of the world thinks
forgot
Posted by
F
at
June-18-2010 11:53 AM
Would the last coalminer out of Ky Wv Va Pa please bring the flag and turn the lights off if there is any power
everyone has rights
Posted by
Teri
at
June-22-2010 12:52 PM
As a daughter of a coal miner and truck driver and the Sister of a deceased coal miner, I agree that everyone has rights.
I hope that the miners in Appalachia do educate themselves about what is really happening in Congress not only on the Federal level but also the State level.
I think if they would truly educate themselves about the issue they would not be towing the line with all these large corporations that do not care for them or their safety or the impact the mines have on the other residents of the communities. They would not be destroying our mountain way of life.They'll leave us with nothing when they are long gone with all their profits and maybe the cost of cleaning up their messes.
I wish my dead brother had talked about all the violations in the mines he was working and looked upon inspectors and msha as an ally rather than an enemy as the coal bosses would have you believe.
These laws haven't been put in place to punish coal miners, coal companies or anyone else we have a system of laws to protect miners and communities from accidents, illness', and environmental destruction related to coal.
I hope that the miners in Appalachia do educate themselves about what is really happening in Congress not only on the Federal level but also the State level.
I think if they would truly educate themselves about the issue they would not be towing the line with all these large corporations that do not care for them or their safety or the impact the mines have on the other residents of the communities. They would not be destroying our mountain way of life.They'll leave us with nothing when they are long gone with all their profits and maybe the cost of cleaning up their messes.
I wish my dead brother had talked about all the violations in the mines he was working and looked upon inspectors and msha as an ally rather than an enemy as the coal bosses would have you believe.
These laws haven't been put in place to punish coal miners, coal companies or anyone else we have a system of laws to protect miners and communities from accidents, illness', and environmental destruction related to coal.
have come a long way
Posted by
F
at
June-23-2010 10:19 AM
Mining safty has come a long way since i started in 1975.i have seen from being told you do this or you will be fired.that is the reason i have always said make the fine cost more than fixing the problem.if a judge or someone dont enforce the law hired or vote someone in thast will.the company i work for has a good safty record and has won many awards in differant states so that mean a lot to me.
all the miners see and hear is we are going to stop MTR and put you out of a job.that would make anyone get mad.right now its uncertain in the mines.i know enough that i encourage my children to get a education and have a differant way of work.alot of us know what the mines have done over the years.
as far as going into a differant line of work what is there in these states.nothing but mines.no big industy will move in here because not enough workfore.a lot of people cant pass a drug test.it has been tried.i want to ask if the mine shut down today would there be a way for the people have lights and power after the coal ran out.i dont think so.i agree we need a differant and more ways to get energy but nothing can be over night and thats the way it would be if miners couldnt work.i have never saw a study if the old mine site could be used for wind mill sites.i know a lot of wind blows all the time on some of the stites.could this be something you all could check.
as far as water the water in eastern ky has been bad a long time long before mining came in.we just didnt have ways of teating it.we need to work togather to make a better way of life and putting someone out of work is not the way to do it.
all the miners see and hear is we are going to stop MTR and put you out of a job.that would make anyone get mad.right now its uncertain in the mines.i know enough that i encourage my children to get a education and have a differant way of work.alot of us know what the mines have done over the years.
as far as going into a differant line of work what is there in these states.nothing but mines.no big industy will move in here because not enough workfore.a lot of people cant pass a drug test.it has been tried.i want to ask if the mine shut down today would there be a way for the people have lights and power after the coal ran out.i dont think so.i agree we need a differant and more ways to get energy but nothing can be over night and thats the way it would be if miners couldnt work.i have never saw a study if the old mine site could be used for wind mill sites.i know a lot of wind blows all the time on some of the stites.could this be something you all could check.
as far as water the water in eastern ky has been bad a long time long before mining came in.we just didnt have ways of teating it.we need to work togather to make a better way of life and putting someone out of work is not the way to do it.
treat your workers with respect.
Posted by
Teri
at
June-23-2010 02:13 PM
I am not sure why you equate following the law with putting people out of work. I certainly don't.
Every business has laws they have to follow, even someone who does manicures for a living has to get a license from the state and their place of business has laws they have to follow.
If I accept your logic requiring coal companies to go thru the same permitting process that thousands of business' government agencies and individuals go thru every year is the same as banning mining.
Other industries seem to manage if coal companies can't get a permit then maybe they should not be mining. From the time they file a pre-application the have a slew of agencies working with them to make sure it is correct. They are constantly advised as to what is acceptable.
I think the most telling thing you said was do what you are told or get fired, Is that really a way to treat a valued employee?
If an industry can not be trusted to treat their workers fairly why should we trust them to protect the environment?
Every business has laws they have to follow, even someone who does manicures for a living has to get a license from the state and their place of business has laws they have to follow.
If I accept your logic requiring coal companies to go thru the same permitting process that thousands of business' government agencies and individuals go thru every year is the same as banning mining.
Other industries seem to manage if coal companies can't get a permit then maybe they should not be mining. From the time they file a pre-application the have a slew of agencies working with them to make sure it is correct. They are constantly advised as to what is acceptable.
I think the most telling thing you said was do what you are told or get fired, Is that really a way to treat a valued employee?
If an industry can not be trusted to treat their workers fairly why should we trust them to protect the environment?
said before things are diferant
Posted by
F
at
June-24-2010 10:38 AM
what us miners see is logging ,gas companies,and land people clearing and doing their thing and nothing is ever done.i know i am going to get the usual stuff like mining goes deeper in the ground and brings the toxins up but we see the damage,uncontrolled silt and other stuff.so why havnt things being done about them.i know logging has no permit they have to get or sow grass and plant trees back just let the water wash the stuff into creeks and silt will kill fish and other life
A lot of companies treat men with respect anymore.yes you have the ones that dont but look at the men that work there they are not respect for themselfs or the world around them.a company that respect the men dont have to hire every few days to keep going and there is more companies respecting their men now.
Laws we all break them.but why make more laws when the ones in place can do a good job.if you drove down the road and speed if you know you would only have to pay a samll fine or get a friend to get you off you do it but if you get cought and know you will have to pay a hefty fine you wont be a quick to do it.taht is the reason i say make the cost of volation more that what someone will make in breaking the law no matter what businees you are in.till we do that we will always have the law breakers
A lot of companies treat men with respect anymore.yes you have the ones that dont but look at the men that work there they are not respect for themselfs or the world around them.a company that respect the men dont have to hire every few days to keep going and there is more companies respecting their men now.
Laws we all break them.but why make more laws when the ones in place can do a good job.if you drove down the road and speed if you know you would only have to pay a samll fine or get a friend to get you off you do it but if you get cought and know you will have to pay a hefty fine you wont be a quick to do it.taht is the reason i say make the cost of volation more that what someone will make in breaking the law no matter what businees you are in.till we do that we will always have the law breakers
My 2 Cents
Posted by
Todd
at
June-25-2010 01:16 PM
I really hate to chime in because the whole mining debate strikes a sensitive nerve with me. My whole life has been deeply entrenched in mining due to my father working in the industry all of my life and myself working in it. April 30th I was laid off. Ive decided I will earn a living doing something else, whatever that may be. Nonetheless, I fully support the miners and the industry.
Now, onto the NW21. I dont have a problem with them suspending/eliminating the permit. The problem I have is with the timing. As it stands, the Federal Agencies can take as much time as necessary to review an IP and can ask for any information they deem necessary. I cant think of any industry who has a set of rules as one-sided! Yet, you can call the EPA and request an example application for a disposal well (Salt Water for the Oil & Gas Wells) with a step by step information on how the permit works. Everything is laid out for you. The Gas & Oil companies know what to expect and can "Plan" for the permit. With Coal, you have no way of planning. Which can lead to job losses.
Todd
Now, onto the NW21. I dont have a problem with them suspending/eliminating the permit. The problem I have is with the timing. As it stands, the Federal Agencies can take as much time as necessary to review an IP and can ask for any information they deem necessary. I cant think of any industry who has a set of rules as one-sided! Yet, you can call the EPA and request an example application for a disposal well (Salt Water for the Oil & Gas Wells) with a step by step information on how the permit works. Everything is laid out for you. The Gas & Oil companies know what to expect and can "Plan" for the permit. With Coal, you have no way of planning. Which can lead to job losses.
Todd
end to working people
have a good day mine has been shot to h...