NC hearing on Appalachian Mountain Preservation Act
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More action in North Carolina today as a committee of the state legislature heard testimony on the Appalachian Mountain Preservation Act — legislation that would prevent North Carolina utilities from buying coal that had been extracted by mountaintop removal.
There was a short hearing of scheduled testimony before the NC House Environment and Natural Resources Committee, chaired by Rep. Lucy Allen. Lora Smith was there and reports:
"On the opponents side representatives from Progress Energy and Duke Power speculated on what the bill would do to the North Carolina economy warning that if passed, no new businesses would ever, ever come to the state again. On the proponents side, Ann League of Tennessee's Save Our Cumberland Mountains (SOCM) and Matt Wasson of Appalachian Voices presented on the environmental and human costs of mountaintop removal mined coal and presented data on how little switching to entirely deep mined coal would cost North Carolina utilities in lieu of buying half of their coal from Mountaintop Removal operations."
There was a big showing of coal officials from Kentucky, West Virginia and Tennessee — including Kentucky Coal Association President Bill Caylor — there apparently expecting to testify, even though they were not invited or on the schedule. Lora reports that Rep. Allen held her ground and didn't allow the committee to be bullied by these "special" visitors.
"However, the big coal lobbyists did get in a few comments at the end with some pretty ridiculous and outright false statements — as in telling the committee that underground mines created valley fills as large as those created by mountaintop removal."
Overall the hearing went well, though there was no vote in the committee today.
UPDATE: April 22 — The (Raleigh) News & Observer reports this morning that the Preservation Act's sponsor, Rep. Pricey Harrison, has withdrawn this bill. She said she'd work on a resolution to encourage Congress to restrict or ban the mining practice. Read the newspaper's brief report here.Its Unbelievable that KFTC would travel NC!
Posted by
Todd
at
April-22-2009 09:41 PM
Oh my! What a shame! Mr. Bill Caylor and KFTC doing similar actions? Whats this world coming to? Wait a minute, what the hell was a member of KFTC doing in NC?
Get over it, he went and stood up for something he believes in and you criticize him. You have a member that gets arrested for fighting for what he believes in and his actions are celebrated. Talk about a double standard!
Todd
Get over it, he went and stood up for something he believes in and you criticize him. You have a member that gets arrested for fighting for what he believes in and his actions are celebrated. Talk about a double standard!
Todd
A different opinion
Posted by
Lora
at
April-23-2009 12:06 PM
I'm happy that folks are talking about what's happening in North Carolina and many other states with the introduction of these types of bills.
Here's my opinion:
I don't think this is a double standard and I think what is being celebrated by KFTC is citizen responsibility and a true form of American patriotism.
I think it's important to note the very stark differences that exist between a corporate player like Bill Caylor and the private citizen and coalfield resident who was arrested in North Carolina.
Bill Caylor did not show up to a state sanctioned committee meeting in North Carolina as a "concerned citizen". And he didn't show up there on his own dime or because he was invited by the North Carolina General Assembly.
Bill Caylor was sent there, uninvited, to represent special interests and was flown to North Carolina on a private jet to try and stop the North Carolina bill because it's his job.
Caylor is paid top money to represent large corporations that have an interest in the cheapest forms of coal extraction as possible. And by cheapest I mean those operations that are massive and require the fewest amount of workers to operate.
Furthermore, his time spent trying to hold up and interrupt the committee meeting visibly frustrated the Chair of the committee and other legislators. That just seems like bad manners to me and I was embarrassed, as a Kentuckian, to have that be a show of how we act- especially around the elected officials from another state.
The KFTC member who was arrested at Cliffside was not there because it was his job, he was not there because he was being paid, and he was most certainly not flown down on a private chartered leer jet.
Instead he had to take off a day of work from his job and get himself to North Carolina, where he was an invited guest at a demonstration hosted by a respected non-profit organization.
Furthermore, he was there to exercise the most basic freedom we have in this country- free speech- and to stand up for his community and his rights. He was voicing a sometimes unpopular and controversial opinion knowing that he has to return to the community where he's from and deal day-to-day with people who don't agree with him - now, that takes REAL guts!
That kinda thing seems far more patriotic and American to me than working a corporate-level job and sitting in the back of a room at meetings during the work week because, and again I can't stress this enough, you are getting paid a very high salary to do so and then get to return to your home in the non-coalfield big city of Lexington.
Big Coal proponents are quick to try and say that big business and special interests are the same as an individual citizen fighting corporate abuse in his/her own backyard. And that seems like the double standard to me.
Caylor didn't travel to North Carolina to represent the hard working people I'm from and know in the coalfields.
He was there to represent CEOs of large corporations and big business practices that are over-subsidized with our tax dollars and bulldozing over private citizens in this country.
I for one am proud of KFTC members and proud of brave Eastern Kentuckians standing up for what they believe in. A proud mountaineer standing up for the land s/he loves is about as American and patriotic as you can get- and that's something to celebrate!
Here's my opinion:
I don't think this is a double standard and I think what is being celebrated by KFTC is citizen responsibility and a true form of American patriotism.
I think it's important to note the very stark differences that exist between a corporate player like Bill Caylor and the private citizen and coalfield resident who was arrested in North Carolina.
Bill Caylor did not show up to a state sanctioned committee meeting in North Carolina as a "concerned citizen". And he didn't show up there on his own dime or because he was invited by the North Carolina General Assembly.
Bill Caylor was sent there, uninvited, to represent special interests and was flown to North Carolina on a private jet to try and stop the North Carolina bill because it's his job.
Caylor is paid top money to represent large corporations that have an interest in the cheapest forms of coal extraction as possible. And by cheapest I mean those operations that are massive and require the fewest amount of workers to operate.
Furthermore, his time spent trying to hold up and interrupt the committee meeting visibly frustrated the Chair of the committee and other legislators. That just seems like bad manners to me and I was embarrassed, as a Kentuckian, to have that be a show of how we act- especially around the elected officials from another state.
The KFTC member who was arrested at Cliffside was not there because it was his job, he was not there because he was being paid, and he was most certainly not flown down on a private chartered leer jet.
Instead he had to take off a day of work from his job and get himself to North Carolina, where he was an invited guest at a demonstration hosted by a respected non-profit organization.
Furthermore, he was there to exercise the most basic freedom we have in this country- free speech- and to stand up for his community and his rights. He was voicing a sometimes unpopular and controversial opinion knowing that he has to return to the community where he's from and deal day-to-day with people who don't agree with him - now, that takes REAL guts!
That kinda thing seems far more patriotic and American to me than working a corporate-level job and sitting in the back of a room at meetings during the work week because, and again I can't stress this enough, you are getting paid a very high salary to do so and then get to return to your home in the non-coalfield big city of Lexington.
Big Coal proponents are quick to try and say that big business and special interests are the same as an individual citizen fighting corporate abuse in his/her own backyard. And that seems like the double standard to me.
Caylor didn't travel to North Carolina to represent the hard working people I'm from and know in the coalfields.
He was there to represent CEOs of large corporations and big business practices that are over-subsidized with our tax dollars and bulldozing over private citizens in this country.
I for one am proud of KFTC members and proud of brave Eastern Kentuckians standing up for what they believe in. A proud mountaineer standing up for the land s/he loves is about as American and patriotic as you can get- and that's something to celebrate!
Good Point
Posted by
Todd
at
April-23-2009 12:46 PM
Lora,
You bring up a good point in the relationship between a paid and non-paid activist. Im of the opinion that people should have the right to voice their thoughts and those that do, should be celebrated. As ive stated numerous times, I think KFTC is a great voice and organization that people should be proud of. Obviously, I stand on the other side of the plate from KFTC on some issues (mainly MTR), but I have a great respect for what it stands for.
Look, my issue with KFTC, is I see no real direction on where to go when coal is forced out. We keep hearing about alternative energies, but the people Ive talked to are saying we are years away from replacing the demand for coal because the technology isnt quite where it needs to be. Natural gas doesnt have the infrastructure in place to meet the demand and it would take a few years and millions of dollars construct enough pipeline to help. Hydro opens up another can of worms in relation to the environment by placing a dam across a stream. Wind power could be a viable option in early spring and fall, but the energy production would never be 24hrs a day, 365 days a year. Solar, again it can only produce energy during the daylight hours. Are these better than coal? Maybe in 15 years, when the technologies are more advanced.
Why cant anyone talk about phasing in alternative energy over a 15 to 20 year period, this would allow utilities time to research and construct new alternatives? Heck, the government can put a mandate on more efficient cars over a 15 year period, why cant we do the same with the utility companies?
KFTC, claims to be for the citizens of Kentucky. I fit into that category, and I live and WORK in the coal fields, so I hope you understand why I ask these questions. Alot of people share my concerns and we simply want to know, What about us? What are you going to do to keep us working?
Thanks and have a great day!
Todd
You bring up a good point in the relationship between a paid and non-paid activist. Im of the opinion that people should have the right to voice their thoughts and those that do, should be celebrated. As ive stated numerous times, I think KFTC is a great voice and organization that people should be proud of. Obviously, I stand on the other side of the plate from KFTC on some issues (mainly MTR), but I have a great respect for what it stands for.
Look, my issue with KFTC, is I see no real direction on where to go when coal is forced out. We keep hearing about alternative energies, but the people Ive talked to are saying we are years away from replacing the demand for coal because the technology isnt quite where it needs to be. Natural gas doesnt have the infrastructure in place to meet the demand and it would take a few years and millions of dollars construct enough pipeline to help. Hydro opens up another can of worms in relation to the environment by placing a dam across a stream. Wind power could be a viable option in early spring and fall, but the energy production would never be 24hrs a day, 365 days a year. Solar, again it can only produce energy during the daylight hours. Are these better than coal? Maybe in 15 years, when the technologies are more advanced.
Why cant anyone talk about phasing in alternative energy over a 15 to 20 year period, this would allow utilities time to research and construct new alternatives? Heck, the government can put a mandate on more efficient cars over a 15 year period, why cant we do the same with the utility companies?
KFTC, claims to be for the citizens of Kentucky. I fit into that category, and I live and WORK in the coal fields, so I hope you understand why I ask these questions. Alot of people share my concerns and we simply want to know, What about us? What are you going to do to keep us working?
Thanks and have a great day!
Todd
I agree
Posted by
Lora
at
April-23-2009 02:20 PM
Todd,
Thank you for your reply to my blog post. I usually never post on these things and am always scared to, because people seem to get mean with each other and not have a conversation. So I really appreciate your response. And I totally agree with much of what you are saying.
I'm also from Eastern Kentucky and my father was a surface miner and eventually ran a small owner-operator surface mining company. This was back in the 70s when there seemed to be more small operations that were locally owned and not these huge MTR sites that are corporately owned or owned by people who are from and live outside of the coalfields. I am very proud of my family, where we come from and am grateful to all the hard working men and women, like yourself, in the coalfields.
I currently live in North Carolina which is why I was at that committee hearing the other day. We moved because my fiance got a job over here, but I only moved with him on the condition that he promises to move me back to the Kentucky mountains!
I'm seventh-generation East Kentucky and it's important to me that there is an 8th generation that can say the same. So, please understand that this is where I'm coming from and I have strong opinions about this matter because, like you, I care about the future of our region and the families that live there. I really want to be able to move back home and support a family and have my children (and my children's children) have lots of opportunities for education and jobs at home and lots of beautiful mountains to explore.
When you ask "Why cant anyone talk about phasing in alternative energy over a 15 to 20 year period, this would allow utilities time to research and construct new alternatives? Heck, the government can put a mandate on more efficient cars over a 15 year period, why cant we do the same with the utility companies?" I totally agree with what you're saying.
I don't think that KFTC is advocating for an immediate stop to all coal production and electricity use. It's my understanding based on their Position on Coal (which is on this website) that they are advocating for a return to more underground mining while we are transitioning away from coal, but do oppose the Mountaintop Removal mining method because it's the most destructive form of mining and is taking away what makes our land special- our mountains- and what is needed to support life- clean water.
And I agree that the government should be putting a mandate on making utility companies become more efficient and should be investing in renewables research and development.
There are other KFTC members and members of KFTC's staff that can post something on here that has more details and information about alternative energy resources, but I do know that KFTC is undertaking a campaign to ask utility companies to start transitioning to renewable energy sources.
In addition, The High Road Initiative is a program that KFTC has that for the last several years has been working on creating jobs in Kentucky that are sustainable- both for the environment and for the people.
I think that it's important to keep in mind that however long it takes coal will eventually run out because it is not a renewable resource. Plus, a boom and bust industry isn't good for our people and never really has been - for the workers at least. And so, what I think is being asked of each one of us as citizens and of our country as a whole is to have vision.
What I see is a great opportunity for this country to come together and create millions of new jobs building that infastructure you're talking about. I think it is going to take some short-term sacrifice, ingenuity, and a lot of hard work, but as a nation we have done it before and it's what makes us so great.
I think what we have to do in the coalfields is accept that an end to coal is coming, but take action NOW to be prepared for that day and to make sure that our communities are going to have jobs in this new energy future.
And KFTC and it's members (like me) are doing that it just may not get as much attention as the MTR stuff does. I think it's kinda like a person who has gotten their arm cut badly- you have to first stop the bleeding before you can hope to sew their arm back on and for them to heal. Some KFTC members are trying to stop the bleeding- they're trying to stop their property from being destroyed. But other people in the coalfields and throughout the state are working, maybe just more quietly and without the TV cameras, on making sure there are jobs in place for when the bleeding stops.
Like I said, I think others on here can talk more knowledgeably than me about the current state of renewable energy, but I also feel strongly that we need to diversify our economy in the mountains and that's something that can happen right now!
Workers in the coalfields can take some comfort in the fact that other communities have been through this before and have weathered large economic conversions successfully. For example, tobacco farm families. My fiance currently works in North Carolina with farmers out here transitioning off of tobacco and doing really innovative stuff in order to hold onto their family land and keep farming. And many of them are starting to make more money than they did before.
I travel with him around the state sometimes to visit these farms and am always impressed by how creative and innovative folks are when put to the test. We go out to Western North Carolina quite a bit and there are folks out there who share much in common with Eastern Kentuckians as they are from the Appalachian mountains too.
In Ashe County we met a farm family that is growing strawberries. Right now they are making a net of $20,000 off of ONE acre of strawberries- and they have several acres. Not bad. Plus they get to enjoy their land and have a creek that has a ton of trout in it that they fish for and can eat b/c the water is clean.
We asked him if this kind of thing could be done in Eastern Kentucky and the guy, who spent some time around Hazard, said yes, because this is a particularly hearty strain they are growing and Ashe County is about at the same elevation as Kentucky mountain counties. I said, "I think we need to get into the strawberry business!" In seriousness, I think we need to be thinking about things like that. Other ways to work the land rather than mining it that would be healthier and safer for people too. And other jobs that would pull on the skills many workers already have in the region.
I also think we should be looking to other communities in the mountains (and other mountainous regions) that are doing better - have lower rates of poverty and unemployment - and see what they are doing that works and consider if those types of thing can be done in Kentucky.
I think we need to have a big vision but start small. And know that the important thing is to just start.
I truly believe that while we are transitioning away from coal we can also be creating the jobs needed for families to prosper in the mountains. And I think KFTC members and staff are thinking of coal families because many of them are from coal families themselves. I know no one at KFTC that wants to see folks hurting and out of work- I think it's quite the opposite, I think we're working for safer current work environments and for new jobs.
Thanks again for your posts, Todd. I appreciate your thoughts and opinions and the opportunity to share mine with you.
Ultimately, we're all in this together and we need to support one another during this time to ensure that the families in Eastern Kentucky are not left out and are heard by the people making policy and writing the laws. It's one of the reasons I appreciate that KFTC gives people from all over the state a chance to go to Frankfort and Washington D.C. and all over the place to share their stories, concerns and opinions.
Take Care,
Lora
Thank you for your reply to my blog post. I usually never post on these things and am always scared to, because people seem to get mean with each other and not have a conversation. So I really appreciate your response. And I totally agree with much of what you are saying.
I'm also from Eastern Kentucky and my father was a surface miner and eventually ran a small owner-operator surface mining company. This was back in the 70s when there seemed to be more small operations that were locally owned and not these huge MTR sites that are corporately owned or owned by people who are from and live outside of the coalfields. I am very proud of my family, where we come from and am grateful to all the hard working men and women, like yourself, in the coalfields.
I currently live in North Carolina which is why I was at that committee hearing the other day. We moved because my fiance got a job over here, but I only moved with him on the condition that he promises to move me back to the Kentucky mountains!
I'm seventh-generation East Kentucky and it's important to me that there is an 8th generation that can say the same. So, please understand that this is where I'm coming from and I have strong opinions about this matter because, like you, I care about the future of our region and the families that live there. I really want to be able to move back home and support a family and have my children (and my children's children) have lots of opportunities for education and jobs at home and lots of beautiful mountains to explore.
When you ask "Why cant anyone talk about phasing in alternative energy over a 15 to 20 year period, this would allow utilities time to research and construct new alternatives? Heck, the government can put a mandate on more efficient cars over a 15 year period, why cant we do the same with the utility companies?" I totally agree with what you're saying.
I don't think that KFTC is advocating for an immediate stop to all coal production and electricity use. It's my understanding based on their Position on Coal (which is on this website) that they are advocating for a return to more underground mining while we are transitioning away from coal, but do oppose the Mountaintop Removal mining method because it's the most destructive form of mining and is taking away what makes our land special- our mountains- and what is needed to support life- clean water.
And I agree that the government should be putting a mandate on making utility companies become more efficient and should be investing in renewables research and development.
There are other KFTC members and members of KFTC's staff that can post something on here that has more details and information about alternative energy resources, but I do know that KFTC is undertaking a campaign to ask utility companies to start transitioning to renewable energy sources.
In addition, The High Road Initiative is a program that KFTC has that for the last several years has been working on creating jobs in Kentucky that are sustainable- both for the environment and for the people.
I think that it's important to keep in mind that however long it takes coal will eventually run out because it is not a renewable resource. Plus, a boom and bust industry isn't good for our people and never really has been - for the workers at least. And so, what I think is being asked of each one of us as citizens and of our country as a whole is to have vision.
What I see is a great opportunity for this country to come together and create millions of new jobs building that infastructure you're talking about. I think it is going to take some short-term sacrifice, ingenuity, and a lot of hard work, but as a nation we have done it before and it's what makes us so great.
I think what we have to do in the coalfields is accept that an end to coal is coming, but take action NOW to be prepared for that day and to make sure that our communities are going to have jobs in this new energy future.
And KFTC and it's members (like me) are doing that it just may not get as much attention as the MTR stuff does. I think it's kinda like a person who has gotten their arm cut badly- you have to first stop the bleeding before you can hope to sew their arm back on and for them to heal. Some KFTC members are trying to stop the bleeding- they're trying to stop their property from being destroyed. But other people in the coalfields and throughout the state are working, maybe just more quietly and without the TV cameras, on making sure there are jobs in place for when the bleeding stops.
Like I said, I think others on here can talk more knowledgeably than me about the current state of renewable energy, but I also feel strongly that we need to diversify our economy in the mountains and that's something that can happen right now!
Workers in the coalfields can take some comfort in the fact that other communities have been through this before and have weathered large economic conversions successfully. For example, tobacco farm families. My fiance currently works in North Carolina with farmers out here transitioning off of tobacco and doing really innovative stuff in order to hold onto their family land and keep farming. And many of them are starting to make more money than they did before.
I travel with him around the state sometimes to visit these farms and am always impressed by how creative and innovative folks are when put to the test. We go out to Western North Carolina quite a bit and there are folks out there who share much in common with Eastern Kentuckians as they are from the Appalachian mountains too.
In Ashe County we met a farm family that is growing strawberries. Right now they are making a net of $20,000 off of ONE acre of strawberries- and they have several acres. Not bad. Plus they get to enjoy their land and have a creek that has a ton of trout in it that they fish for and can eat b/c the water is clean.
We asked him if this kind of thing could be done in Eastern Kentucky and the guy, who spent some time around Hazard, said yes, because this is a particularly hearty strain they are growing and Ashe County is about at the same elevation as Kentucky mountain counties. I said, "I think we need to get into the strawberry business!" In seriousness, I think we need to be thinking about things like that. Other ways to work the land rather than mining it that would be healthier and safer for people too. And other jobs that would pull on the skills many workers already have in the region.
I also think we should be looking to other communities in the mountains (and other mountainous regions) that are doing better - have lower rates of poverty and unemployment - and see what they are doing that works and consider if those types of thing can be done in Kentucky.
I think we need to have a big vision but start small. And know that the important thing is to just start.
I truly believe that while we are transitioning away from coal we can also be creating the jobs needed for families to prosper in the mountains. And I think KFTC members and staff are thinking of coal families because many of them are from coal families themselves. I know no one at KFTC that wants to see folks hurting and out of work- I think it's quite the opposite, I think we're working for safer current work environments and for new jobs.
Thanks again for your posts, Todd. I appreciate your thoughts and opinions and the opportunity to share mine with you.
Ultimately, we're all in this together and we need to support one another during this time to ensure that the families in Eastern Kentucky are not left out and are heard by the people making policy and writing the laws. It's one of the reasons I appreciate that KFTC gives people from all over the state a chance to go to Frankfort and Washington D.C. and all over the place to share their stories, concerns and opinions.
Take Care,
Lora
Working together
Posted by
Todd
at
April-24-2009 08:50 AM
Lora,
Where can I get some of those strawberries? LOL!
It pains me that this country has gotten so uptight that we cant speak our minds without fear of offending someone. How sad is that? Conversation is a key element in the development of any society and all across the US it has been severely weakened. Im hopeful that we (people like you and I, not the bureaucrats) can change this mentality by finding a common ground to our problems. If we continue to leave it up to Washington and Frankfort, then in my opinion, we are out of luck!
Thanks,
Todd
Where can I get some of those strawberries? LOL!
It pains me that this country has gotten so uptight that we cant speak our minds without fear of offending someone. How sad is that? Conversation is a key element in the development of any society and all across the US it has been severely weakened. Im hopeful that we (people like you and I, not the bureaucrats) can change this mentality by finding a common ground to our problems. If we continue to leave it up to Washington and Frankfort, then in my opinion, we are out of luck!
Thanks,
Todd
Way to go, NC!